music industry shuts down guitar tab websites
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Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 09, 2006 12:34 am Ya, I read it was going to happen. I just didn't think it would be this soon. And ya, I agree it is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. I have never seen a book that even comes close to being as complete as most of the good tab sites out there. Most are so vague it is ridiculous that they can even charge the large sum of money they do. And to buy sheet music, that is another industry that is ripping people off left and right. First you have to pay for the piano part, then the guitar part, then the bass part, then if there are horn's. I have seen the 3 or 4 page piano only sheets go for upwards of $15.00. For on lousy song, are you kidding!!
Oh well, next I'll get busted because I emailed a phone number on the web.
Dec 09, 2006 01:45 am The one thing that everyone, including people proposing legislation or litigation must remember is:
It's impossible to copyright a chord progression, let alone the chords themselves. Is anyone paying attention?
Just checking.
Herb
Dec 09, 2006 02:54 am yeah but herb, that can't be your point of entry into the argument. these aren't just chord progressions. they're songs. but this is ridiculous in a way that the crackdown on mp3s is not.
music is a language. people repeat things they hear all the time. jokes, stories. this is communication, for christ's sake! tab is communication.
plus, i have many times bought the tab for an album i've cared about. the books, i mean. aren't most people this way? i only buy these expensive things if an album is extremely important to me, and i buy them often, because i want thoroughness and accuracy. i have always been this way, even before the internet.
i dunno. can you now sue a guy in a park for teaching a song to a person? can you sue a passer-by for overhearing a song on a boombox when he hasn't paid? this is just ridiculous. this is people doing what people do: communicating. tab is ideas, not the actual music. interpretations, guesses, best attempts. and even if a tab was perfectly accurate, it's still the result of a mind's own work, and i think it deserves expression.
i'm sorry, i don't think this particular industry has any claim here, and the future will bear this out. the rights of music publishers are rights they've gained for the simple reason that they controlled the means of distribution. it's not like it was a collective decision that it was 'right' to do this. it happened because there was no alternative. now, there is, and this is the future. you *can't* restrict this, i don't think, indefinitely. for the basic reason that it's ******* insane. that kind of publishing right is literally a historical accident.
el musicoFreeleance Producer/Engineer/GtrMember
Since: Aug 11, 2002
Dec 09, 2006 12:38 pm Just train yourself to play by ear... it's free!
haha
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Dec 09, 2006 02:39 pm Since only lyrics, melody, and the physical recording are copyrightable there should still be room in the law for sites to post guitar tab for it's most common use which is learning a chord progressions & solo's. Problem is the ones who post tab aren't likley rich enough to go to court over it.
Publishers of guitar tab do have to pay for a license to do so, therefore someone who publishes the tab of a complete song (which includes melody) to a web site should have to as well. It's really no different than the actual music itself if you want the complete song, in that sense. Until someone is willing to take a chance in court getting "complete song" defined isn't going to happen.
I agree with el musico, in the end one needs to learn to play by ear. I bought quite a few books while I was learning and for the most part they sucked as far a accuracy but they still got you pointed in the right direction. While one is learning it won't kill them to buy a book or 2.
I think because guitar is so easy to learn to play relatively speaking, people think they should be able to get guitar tab free because it's simple itself compared to sheet music, but most piano, wind instrument, brass etc, have been and continue to buy sheet music & books to learn their instrument of choice, guitar shouldn't be any different.
And finally back when they cracked down on lyric sheets being posted, you can still find lyrics on the internet and you'll likely still be able to find guitar tab after this latest round of crack downs.
Dan
Dec 09, 2006 04:17 pm it's the principle.
though truth be told i don't ever use tab sites because i enjoy figuring things out by ear and am often more correct than the tabs i find. when i want to learn intricate guitar parts for great albums, though, i buy the books. i can't imagine learning to play all the parts of, say, ok computer by ear. so i bought that one. and AIC dirt, and pearl jam ten, and more, all back in the day.
Dec 10, 2006 12:42 am I'm not condoning piracy here, but I'd like to pose a question.
If a person who would NEVER pay for "intellectual property" if he could not get it for free, then obtains said property, who loses anything?
Philosophers have grappled with this one throughout the ages, and the issue will probably be resolved at about the same time the abortion debate ends.
H.
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Dec 10, 2006 02:54 pm You could use that same argument for any thing for sale, doesn't work does it.
Dan
Dec 11, 2006 07:06 am "I'm not condoning piracy here, but I'd like to pose a question.
If a person who would NEVER pay for "intellectual property" if he could not get it for free, then obtains said property, who loses anything?
Philosophers have grappled with this one throughout the ages, and the issue will probably be resolved at about the same time the abortion debate ends."
philosphers werent trying to eek out a living by selling records. so they can go frig emsleves as far as this debate is concerned.
there was a guy who wouldnt buy a tv, so he broke into my house and stole mine. so who loses? oh, i do. stupid question. same if someone steals my music and doesnt pay me for it. i lose out, the record comapny loses out and ultimately i can't go on tour becuse i have poor sales (although i'm selling in russia, just wish it was anyone to do with me selling it insead of pirates).
piracy screws over the independent scenes. end of.
as for tabs, well, i seemed to manage ok before we all had internet so i don't mind buying books.. or learning by ear. i don't expect to get classical scores for free, so maybe i shouldnt expect rock songs for free either...
Dec 11, 2006 07:41 am I use tab sites for songs I find interesting or moving. Mostly the tab sites I have seen are really only good for basic chord progressions and structure of a song, which is all I typically want, I tend to learn by seeing how somebody else put some pieces together to create a certain mood in a song...bank it in my memory for future use, and move on.
Now, I find the RIAA, MPAA and all these groups quite silly for going to the insane measures they are to protect their interests, and even funnier that they turn around and lobby for getting the actual artists less royalties for their works. That said, it's not my property, so it's not like I have any control or anything.
The people that DO own the rights are the ones doing it, if you don't like, don't give them your money, ever. Also don't steal their stuff and give more fuel to their fire either. Don't support their bands, their label, their anything.
Dec 11, 2006 10:10 am "there was a guy who wouldnt buy a tv, so he broke into my house and stole mine. so who loses? oh, i do. stupid question."
That's quite different. You paid for the TV, then it was taken from you, now you have no TV. Intellectual property owners can't use that argument. Remember, I was referring to intellectual property only, and people who would never pay for the music, tabs, whatever in the first place, because it's not important enough to them.
Now I'll drop the subject. Thanks for listening.
Dec 11, 2006 10:53 am IF IT'S NOT IMPORTANT, DON'T STEAL IT FROM ME. END OF.
someone strals from me, they steal from me. simple as that. i wouldnt put this down to tabs but as you mentioned piracy then went on to defend it...
Dec 11, 2006 12:47 pm I use tab sites all of the time. I want to learn how to play more songs. It's quicker than learning it off of the record. (Though not always as accurate!) What exactly am I stealing?
Am I still stealing it if I learn to play it by listening to the record?
Jim
Dec 11, 2006 05:54 pm another difference with tabs is that they're so easy to produce, and people really enjoy producing them. not everyone can produce written piano sheet music, you know. but every guitar player can produce tabs, and it's a sort of hobby in itself. so in a certain way, this stand the companies are taking are actually kind of putting chains on a basic skill that all guitarists have. and that's kind of screwed up.
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